Hi there, I've been reading your site for quite sometime now (after I got weary of IGN), so I thought I might as well write. Enough for the introduction and let me add a small remark to yesterday's (the day before, actually) subject: I don't usually rename characters, but I changed "Dagger" to "Alexia" (queen of Alexiandra, ergh...).

Now to the subject. I finished Vagrant Story in 40 hours but I did understand the system and don't think it's that complex after all, just as the Junction system was (as long as you had enough magic to actually try out things). However, they're more complex than most, and this allows for some rather weird things to do (like playing Grandia 2 on A.I. - but I digress). Eventually I could beat Ultima Weapon with one Renzokuken, Ultimecia was no match for me and the Cathedral bosses were cut into pieces with my trusted 2 hand blade before they could hit me once. I'm experimenting on other ways to beating those games right now (and I have been in the past), and I believe having "complex" systems adds quite a lot to the replay value. However, a designer should not allow the systems to hamper other parts of the gameplay. The only thing that ticks me off in Vagrant Story is that there is no shorcut menu for weapon swapping. Let's say there are beasts, humans and evil creatures in one room and I've got three double function blades (i.e., phantom-human, beast-dragon, evil-undead), I've got to open the main menu two times and press O about ten times to swap weapon. Of course, I could dispose of the evil creatures with my phantom blade, but sometimes that's not so easy and I don't get points to make the blade stronger - in fact, it is weakened. What I'm trying to say is that, the more complex the "systems" become, the more care must be put into crafting a proper interface. Speaking of which, I found Valkyrie Profile to be quite confusing in its menus, and there's no real guide to what weapons do and how they combo. Remember Ocarina of Time: everything was perfectly clear at all times, despite your having 3 items, sword, shield and Z targeting and movement to take care of. OK, maybe the example is not so fitting, but the idea should be clear anyway. Thanks.

The Artist Elsewhere Known as M-Square (M2) but who shall be known as M-Cube on the GIA.

I'm the kind of person who couldn't understand the tutorials in FF8, FF7, FFT and Vagrant Story despite sitting down for 2 hours trying to figure it out, but I ended up being best at these games because I went ahead and fiddled with the battle system for 5 minutes and ignoring the tutorial's words of wisdom.

Moral of the story: Pay no attention to the tutorials; they serve to only confuse you.

DMJ

Hey Fritz,

I think a nice happy medium kind of thingie is best. I like a system where I can tinker almost as much as I want, but if pressed use the constant, and though that may be tougher, it saves the brain.

FFT is a great example. You really didn't have to unlock mime, calculator, or even medator, Ninja or anything. With knights, archers, priests, black mages, and theives alone you could beat the game, or you can you the special classes such as Holy Swordsman, Divine Knight, etc, to beat it. But you didn't have to. I found FFT's job system very simple, and it could have been much more complicated but wasn't. Something along those lines is great. It allows for great depth but doesn't force it on you.

That is what RPGs today need to do to continue to make their systems immersive and increase replay value while still being fun and easy enough that you do not have to be Dexter to figure it out.

Efrate, still awaiting an FFT2.

My limit on rpg system complexity is when you junction magic to your stats. Or play a board game to raise your stats. HOHOHO JUST KIDDING I KILL YOU I LOVE THEM BOTH

-skullie

Hey chief! 8-)

Hum. No, I like my RPGs to be more or less simple. In fact, after three days of rental, I *never* figured out Vagrant Story, although that's really the exception rather than the rule. I liked CC's Element system a lot, ditto for FF9's Ability System. I had lots of fun with FF Tactics. But it's just so easy for systems to become increasingly complicated to the point where if they throw in one stat for one enemy that's too heavy, you usually have to do some sort of obscure trick to beat it. (See the Ramza/Wiegraf solo battle in FF Tactics, or the Dario battle in CC.) It's just much harder to compensate. So yep, simple's more boring, but it works better. That's what we science types call Occam's Razor: Simple solutions work. That's why Earth goes around the sun and not vice versa. 8p

--Cidolfas, who has GOT to get this damn astronomy stuff out of his head

Howdy GIA people,

You're trying to tell me that they make complex games? There has yet been a game that has knocked lil' ol me off my feet with its complexity, so if you could kindly point in the direction of one I will quickly show you that the game is no more complex than baking a cake....which isn't hard if you've never done it....quite easy....nevermind...

Wait! Did you point at Vagrant Story? Ah ha ha ha! That game complex? Please...you're killing me! Ha ha ha! *falls over dead from laughing*

~Wibble~

Dear Fritzy,

I don't know about system complexity in RPG's, but one thing I'm getting sick of is plot complexity. There's a prevailing attitude that the more convoluted and complicated the story, even unnecessarily (ESPECIALLY unnecessarily), the better. Xenogears pushed the envelope with its -specially- set aside -words- and incomprehensible exposition, and Chrono Cross just threw caution to the wind with its weakly thought-out tie-ins to Chrono Trigger and all that crap in Chronopolis that I can't even remember. Obviously, a strong and engaging plot is integral to an RPG, but throwing in needless fodder to confuse the player does not a good story make.

I'm prepared to be called a drooling idiot,
Nistelle