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Mindless Masses of Sheeple - March 13, 2000 - Fritz Fraundorf Disclaimer: The opinions expressed within this column are those of the participants and the moderator, and do not neccessarily reflect those of the GIA. There is coarse language and potentially offensive material afoot. By the way, how much is the fish? Don't say we didn't warn you. The bad news: I got a lot of great letters on sidequests today, and I had to leave out a number of print-worthy letters. Also, this is my last column as a substitute Double Agent. I'm gonna miss doing this. (This just in - Also in the bad news department, it seems the fine, wonderful folks behind the GIA's very favorite gaming magazine have resurfaced. They don't seem to have learned any lessons since the last time -- remember, kids, if you don't like Treasure games and 2-D shooters, you're a llama, not a human being.) The good news: Not only has Daily Radar declared this to be the new "BEST LETTER COLUMN EVER!" (even better than Sunday's!), Joel Siegel of Good Morning America has called it "FUNNY... WITTY, INSIGHTFUL... THE FEEL-GOOD LETTER COLUMN OF THE SEASON!" Crossing the Pacific | I was just wondering if you know anything about the possible localization of "Tales of Eternia." I heard it isn't going to be translated, which is a real shame, since Tales of Destiny was actually really great (am I the only person to think this?) You should know, since you did write a very detailed FAQ on TOD, which I used in that game (does "Juicy Beef" ring a bell, by any chance?) I know that another chapter in that series is confirmed already, but here's hoping that it will come over here. Anyway, I won't bother you anymore. R. Vinall | While I don't believe there's been any official word that the game won't be coming here, I'd think it's pretty unlikely. (Then again, I said the same thing about Hoshigami and Persona 2, so what do I know?) The PlayStation is on its last legs and Namco is already releasing plenty of PS2 titles, plus the previous Tales game (Tales of Phantasia PSX) didn't make it here either. It's still slightly possible that a English version could be announced E3, but I wouldn't get your hopes up. It's a shame, too -- I'm not a big fan of the Tales series, but it still deserves to be translated. Why Namco would decide to localize Dragon Valor over Tales of Eternia I have nary a clue, since I can't imagine DV appealing to anyone. (Granted, the Tales series isn't a huge name either, but it would certainly have enough fans to push more copies than a festering pile of dung that Dragon Valor would.) Let's hope that at least Project X makes it out over here, though. sk00led | Fritz, as much as I love you, sometimes you slip up. "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern the Vagrant Story characters have no connection to their Shakespearean equivalents." For those who haven't had to read Hamlet repeatedly for classes yet, Rosencratz and Guildenstern are a pair of Hamlet's childhood aquiantences who are sent by Cladius to attempt to gain Hamlet's trust and uncover the reasons for his "madness." As characters, they are generally slimy, untrustworthy, and not at all the friends they present themselves as. That may not sound a whole lot like their Vagrant Story namesakes, but let's keep in mind, Matsuno was making an appropriate reference, not attempting to put Shakespearean characters into his own work. In Vagrant Story, it is actually Rosencratz who really carries the reference. Like his canonized counterpart, he attempts to gain the trust of both Ashley and Sydney, and is (possibly, depending on which version of Ashley's past you believe) a past acquaintance of Ashley's. Like the original, his only true goal is political advancement. However, since the two characters are so closely linked in Hamlet, a reference to one without the other involved would be incomplete. In a lot of pre-release info about Vagrant Story, Guildenstern was presented as being someone who would potentially be working towards similar goals as Ashley, but who should also not be trusted. Obviously, his character did not entirely fit the original promotional material, but the reference does not entirely go astray- Guildenstern remained fond of betrayal for political advancement, and a Rosencratz reference still needs a Guildenstern to be complete. Also, though it wasn't so obvious due to the game's notoriously bad translation, Matsuno also pulled a similar trick in Final Fantasy Tactics with "Ovelia." Though the characters are far from identical, both are used mainly as tools (the name "Ophelia" means "useful tool") by other characters, and ultimately die as a result. Once again, just because Matsuno hasn't cut out Hamlet character and pasted it whole cloth into his game script doesn't mean that it isn't a well done reference. I'd ponder the implications to the similar use of mythological characters in games, but I've ran at the mouth enough. -Davon | Bear in mind when reading the following that I've only played through the first level of Vagrant Story, though I do know the game's pretty plot well: While you could probably draw some parallels between the Vagrant Story and Hamlet characters, I still don't think there's a strong connection. (I would certainly agree with you on the Ophelia part, though.) For one thing, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are more comic relief than anything else -- I'd have to compare them more to Biggs and Wedge (the FF characters), a fellow pair of essentially identical flunkies that meet an inevitable and irrelevant demise. Plus, the original Rosencrantz and Guildenstern aren't really bad guys; they don't know that Claudius killed Hamlet's father and are acting out of honest concern for Hamlet's well-being. I'm starting to sound like my English teacher, so I'd better shut up now. P.S. In answer to the eternal question, Hamlet delays in killing Claudius because "delays are temporary; mediocrity is forever." Corrections Department #2 | > and Miang's last name Hawwa is the Islamic name for Eve. Given Xenogears' overall tilt towards Kabbalistic/Jewish mythology, I'd suspect it's actually supposed to be Havva, the Hebrew name for Eve. (I do sometimes see the letter "w" transliterated instead of "v", and I can't think why except for the fact that some people might want to show a difference between the letters "vav" and "vet" even though they sound exactly the same. End of rant.) --Cidolfas | You're probably right, though they're just two versions of the same name. I have nothing else to say here, so here's a mildly amusing Photoshop hack: Chocobo Hot and Cold... sucks? | Chocobo Hot and Cold sucks. Yes, I realize the topic is "sidequests" but I can contain my anger no longer. Once again. Chocobo Hot and Cold sucks. In my opinion, it's the dumbest minigame since you had to give CPR to the girl in FFVII (yeah, you really needed mad skillz to pump that square button). Let's go over the premise of Chocobo Hot and Cold. You run around on some screen trying to find items. But it's worse than that. When your chocobo gives a KWEEEEEHHHH you spend countless minutes trying to find the exact stupid pixel. And this is supposed to be fun???? Probably the same people who thought that Beyond the Beyond was a good idea. At least there was some modicum of skill in Chocobo raising. The chocograph searching part wasn't so bad, but finding the chocographs (22 of them to boot!) is an amazing exercise in tedium. Square really needs to learn that minigames are supposed to be enjoyable. Not frustrating explorations of the annoyances of random number generators. Raymond | This letter about sums the most popular sentiment: the Chocograph / Chocobo Hot & Cold quest really bites. I have to admit I'm shocked, since before I started receiving any letters, I was prepared to use the Chocographs as an example of an excellent sidequest. A lot of readers mentioned connections to the plot as one of these qualifications of a good sidequest, though, and the Chocograph saga admittedly doesn't have much of a plot. But then, I'm one of those evil, horrible gameplay-loving people who loves Dragon Quest games and who thinks the Junction System is the greatest thing since sliced Soru Bread. Who am I to doubt the wisdom of the Xenogears Collective? MR. MONKEY SUCKS! | Hey, On the topic of side quests and mini quests, I think they would be a great addition to a RPG if only they were easier to get into. It always seems that you have to fall into them by chance, and then they tend to be tedious at best. The rewards are not usually enough to warrant actually hunting them down and then going through all the motions. Another thing I tend to hate about them, and mini games, is that they will often change the basic control engine, so you get such mini games as the motor cycle ride in FF7 as an example. I do think that there will be better execution of them in future titles though, especially as the FF series moves away from pre rendered backgrounds. I would love to play a RPG with the control mechanisms of a game like Zelda OoT. An adventure type game with a very strong story line and good play control? I think Id be in heaven. I am really really hoping that Square decides to go in that direction in the future. It would be a really simple way to put some new life into the RPG genre. I can find less fault with a RPG that handles really well, but might have some weaknesses in the story department, because its fun just on a tactile level. Am I crazy, or just exhausted, or both? Who knows, especially not me. -pw | Agreed. There are a lot of side-quests that are way too hard to stumble across. FF VIII was a terrific example of such an offender, in my opinion. What kind of sad, warped individual spends days talking to rocks, being berated by an abusive monkey, and rearranging scrambled letters to fit together some nonsensical riddle pointing to an exciting, valuable Three Stars? Or the quest with Zell's crush in the library -- I still don't know anyone who can actually can claim to have born in the proper planetary alignment necessary to finish that one. (I won't even touch the Card Queen quest.) This is where I could have used the Chocograph quest as an example of a side- Double Agent SIDEQUEST: RPG Science! The more you learn, the more you know! | --And, as you point out, there's also the shaky science incorporated in an equal number of games (e.g. flying to the moon by speeding up a ramp in FF VIII).-- Using the ramp as a way of gaining both speed and raising the shop to the 90 degree angle needed for launch isn't impossible, just really expensive. It seemed to be a combo of a Aircraft catapult, and a 90 degree ramp. The catapult brought the ship to a speed at which time the main engines activate, further accelerating the ship. Then the ship went up the ramp, causing it to fly straight up. This method does have a certain root in reality, but it would be too complicated and expensive to attempt in real life. anyways, I just thought it looked kinda cool. -Mr. Antimatter *interesting fact: The Saturn V rocket, at its max, Burned over 10,000 liters of fuel per second and flew at over 12 Kilometers a sec.* | And there you have it -- today's Science Fun Fact (TM). And that's the rest of the story. *interesting fact: I think the Saturn console burned out even faster. | quest that's challenging but in a reasonable way -- you're given a specific task; the challenge comes from figuring out how to meet the goal -- but I think I'd better just forget it at this point. OPPOSING VIEWPOINTS: RPG SIDEQUESTS 1. Sidequests should not be connected to the plot - Nich Maragos | Like just about everything else in videogames, sidequests (so it seems to me) aren't intrisically good or bad. Rather, they're an element that can be used well or poorly. Three examples: Planescape: Torment (which is a PC RPG, forgive me) has an interesting approach. When you start the game, you can reach your first major goal in about 20 minutes if you hurry. Of course, you'll probably die instantly if you do. This is because the bulk of Planescape's gameplay is made up of sidequests--there's comparatively little you're actually *required* to do in the game. Accomplishing sidequests earns money, experience, or frequently both, and you'll find yourself in a sticky situation if you do nothing but obsessively advance the plot. If, however, you make a point of finishing as many sidequests as you can, you'll be handsomely rewarded and enjoy relatively smooth sailing. (Note: it would be very easy to get this type of game wrong, if the sidequests were uniformly monotonous and dull. Planescape's sidequests, fortunately, are neither of those things, but just because sidequests worked well in this way once doesn't necessarily mean they will every time.) For a positive example from console games, there's the fresh-off-the-presses Shadow of Destiny. Again, you can progress in a straight line through the game, and unlike Planescape: Torment, there's nothing stopping you from doing so. It's perfectly possible to stay focused on preventing your deaths, and ignore the various opportunities presented. You even get a decent ending for your troubles. But you'll never see the big picture, and you'll never get a sense of what a difference you can really make, if you don't explore sidequests and alternate methods of doing things. Finally, a negative example. Though I liked Final Fantasy VII as much as the next guy, a lot of people have good reasons for calling the story confusing--several crucial details are hidden away in obscure sidequests, like returning to the Shinra Mansion to see the Cloud/Zack cutscene, or finding Lucrecia's cave. Rather than using sidequests to enhance the world, as Planescape and SoD did, FF7 uses sidequests to enhance the story, with poor results. You can trace these effects more by noting how players feel about uncompleted sidequests rather than completed ones. My first time through FF7, I was mildly frustrated because I felt like the plot had several small holes that added up to a larger annoyance. Whereas on my first time through Planescape, my awareness of unsolved sidequests seemed to point to a richer world, one that I wasn't expected to exhaustively complete. I think I'm running out of space, so I'll stop there without a satisfying conclusion--look for Sidequest Letters Gaiden, out soon, to resolve these nagging holes! Nich Maragos | The question of whether sidequests should have a connection was a rather contentious one. Here's the opposing perspective: 2. Sidequests should be connected to the plot - Mark | Fritz, I think sidequests and optional areas are cool. As plot-driven games, rpgs tend to be pretty linear. Sidequests give players freedom without lessening the cohesiveness of the story. The variability sidequests introduce gives rpgs replayability (for those of us willing to go through a forty hour game in order to find the dragon hidden behind the waterfall, anyway). Good sidequests allow the player to gather unique items, encounter new monsters, and perhaps even add a new party member. The best sidequests allow players to learn more about the world their characters inhabit. Bearing that in mind, my favorite sidequest is the one in Xenogears where Fei, Elly and Emerelda learn more about their shared past, and Emerelda subsequently achieves an adult form. - Mark | What kind of sidequests are appropriate for a game may vary on the game type. As an extremely plot-oriented game, Xenogears naturally begets quests for additional story details. The focus of the game is on piecing the 10,000-year saga together, and the Lighthouse quest adds a bit more insight on to a particular era and character. On the other hand, it wouldn't be appropriate for Pokémon Gold to include a sidequest in which we witness 20 minutes of story scenes about Squirtle's traumatic childhood. As an excellent letter by Cantatrix that I couldn't fit into the column pointed out, "I suppose that's part of why making the ultimate RPG is so hard-- there are very few traits in an RPG you can objectively call 'good' or 'bad'." There's no one winning formula for a RPG. There's completely plot-centric RPGs, battle-centric RPGs, collecting and trading RPGs, goofy fun adventure RPGs, plus numerous hybrids thereof -- and good and bad games in all of those categories. I think any formula can work if it's done well; it's not what a game does, it's how it does it. Or something like that. Are you on dope. | O_o .... o_O Chocobo Hot and Cold is crack! CRACK I tell you! -Queen Godzilla | Well, at least someone agrees with me. It's a magical world | Personally, I quite enjoy sidequests. It adds to the illusion that you're not on a rail -- the world is wide open, go ahead and explore it. I like nothing more than being able to wander off the path set for me and suddenly find a secret dungeon, or in the Breath of Fire series, fishing spot. Then again, I also enjoy talking to NPCs, so take that for what it's worth. Negative Creep | Well put. I love games where you get the feeling of exploration and discovery. Sometimes it's the little quests and details that are the most convincing in creating. The Zelda games (and the Mario RPGs) have always been in this excellent with regard, with tons of little fun, useful-but-not-world-shattering secrets to uncover. Cutting-edge intellectual humor | what is a Chu-chu? AL | YOUR MOM. Closing comments: And with those touching final words, it's time for me to make like Iifa A Town Called Tifa and leaf. I've had a blast hosting DA these three days; I hope you've enjoyed my columns as much as I enjoyed writing them. Former GIA Vault editor and master archivist Arpad "Fat Chocobo" Korossy will taking the Agent position for at least tomorrow, while I must crawl back into the realm of news coverage and feign excitement over colored Pokémon game cartridges and delays of Japanese card battle games. Since I got so many good letters today, I'm forwarding the left-overs to Arpad. But if you need a new topic to shape your doughy, pudding-like thoughts around, just tell us which games due out in 2000 you're looking forward to the most. Me, I'm pretty stoked about Smurf Racer! (yes, the exclamation mark is part of the game's title) and that hot new Skittles game. What about you folks? - Fritz Fraundorf, master of unlocking
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